My roomates friend was battling out the role with Ziyi Zhang to be that character, interestingly she’s also Chinese:). I guess I would have liked it to be played by Japanese actors…but I can’t really say for sure that I don’t like it being played by Chinese actors either..
it really depends until I go see the movie for myself and see the acting.

I believe that ethnicity doesn’t make a difference in general and the same message applies to this movie. As long as the movie conveys its story/message, then why should it matter?

it should be matter because skin colors are different, with different background, the distinguishable trait.If the story is about japanese girl, then the cast should be japense, Not chinese.Since they cast, it just shows how lack of knowledge and ignorant the producer is.What if i want to put the slave story by casting white or mongolian people, though the story line is correct, that would be wrong, would it? Please think beyond the obvious, because sometime, all this stuff are just hollywood propaganda.Note: I dont like last samurai; why everytime in a movie, a white man needs to save any women from any kind, while at the same time emasculating non white actors? Please..

Can you even distinguish between Chinese and Japanese???

Of course, we would all like to see Japanese people play these obvious Japanese roles. BUT Ziyi Zhang is an awesome actress. I believe she’ll play this role well.

I knew that this would cause spark between the Japanese and the Chinese. Wasn’t there one Chinese idol who wore a dress portraying the Japanese flag? Didn’t she have to go on national news and declare herself wrong?

And, yes, putting a Chinese woman into the Japanese role of Geisha may be quite like dressing up a Causasian as an African-American and allowing him to play Malcom X, which is illegal.

I, for one, am very excited about this movie. I only hope it follows the story accordingly.

Also, I would like to be able to tell between Japanese and Chinese people, but I can’t. I couldn’t distinguish between an American and a French man being put side by side, and I’m an American.

These cultures will be forever angry at each other it seems. The Japanese people weren’t so bad as the Chinese, but it seems as though this movie has put more wood on the fire, if you know what I mean.

I don’t want to sound prejudice (I’m not I swear it!) But being brought up as an Asian American and seeing lots of Asian people come to America I’ve become observant enough to be able to tell the difference (that and also knowing a little about the Japanese culture). Mostly I can tell with people who weren’t brought up/born in the U.S. It becomes harder for me when they become Americanized (like me heheh).
Of course there are exceptions…but it’s like my sixth sense.
I’m mostly surprised at how much publicity Memoirs of the Geisha is getting…even advertised in makeups now geez.

Ziyi Zhang can’t even speak English well. that would be ok if she were Japanese, but how can i get into a story about a Geisha with a CHINESE accent? it’s so obvious!
AND she is about as Chinese looking as you can get. this reminds me of those stupid cowboy films and TV shows with white people in brown makeup playing Native Americans. this should not be acceptable nowawdays! i live in NYC, i can see Koreans, Chinese and Japanese people everyday. there is an obvious difference to me (but i am an especially observant person). we should not allow this kind of crap just because most people are culturally and racially ignorant. we should be trying to solve that problem, not pander to it.
i read the novel a while ago and was really looking forward to the movie, but i can’t get myself to go and see it. i think i’ll just go back to Kyoto for the REAL thing.

btw, “american” is not a race unless you mean “native american.” a better question that might help make things clearer would be, “how would you feel is someone assumed you were French, or Canadian?” and Zen, how will people like you know what real japanese, chinese are like if hollywood keeps mixing them up? not to attack you, but i realize that there are many people who rarely contact asian people. my girlfriend, who is Korean, is annoyed whenever she meets some americans who assume she is Japanese or Chinese. it’s not so much that she doesn’t like japan or china, but the fact that people are so insensitive to make such assumptions based on no experience. “those asians are all the same, right?” do we really want people to think this.

Awesome. Thanks for posting, people! Good points on both sides.

Welcome to the site to anyone I haven’t said hi to before. Also, Chris, I think to avoid confusion, and make it clear I’m not talking to myself, I’m going to start using my last name in the comments ;)

one more thing… while the actual story is fictional, the culture of the geisha and that time in japan are intended to be factual. of course, right? why would the author bother doing research and consulting with real former geisha otherwise? it’s supposed to feel real, like it really COULD have happened. but it couldn’t have… only japanese women can be geisha, NOT chinese! (accept for that one american anthropology student who became a modern “geisha”.) the casting does an injustice to the book and the author. by the way, has anyone read any comments by the author? what if we found out that all of the historical and cultural facts were messed up? would we be content in our ignorance and say “oh, it’s such a great movie?” or am i too much of a traditionalist?
Also, how many people will see the movie and not even know that Ziyi Zhang is a Chinese actress and not a Japanese actress? if they actually think she is a japanese actress, wouldn’t that be bad? is it ok for an american person to say to a chinese person, “hi! oh, i just love sushi and Nintendo! Look, my car is a Toyota.”

I often joke around with Chris and say that he is more “Japanese” than I am in most respects.. like Su said, being “Americanized” or sansei (third generation) pretty much means you’re clueless about your culture unless one of your parents is a National married to nisei or you are just lucky to have asian pride. So the news of chinese portraying japanese didn’t exactly phase me; just wish they could have chosen GOOD actresses and not just popular action stars/dancers.

What bothers me is the way Japanese are portrayed.. of course the Western world doesn’t “get” Japan or the culture (i.e.: Lost in Translation) because of ignorance or that they are still lording over/blaming them for WWII.. rather than be open-minded and receptive, people would rather believe that the Japanese are weird, cold and compliant, and that geisha are prostitutes.

Movie-wise, I just hope that the subtle non-verbal drama that Japan is famous for will be instated in the characters, but it feels like it will be glitz and show-biz. Not saying that a chinese actor wouldn’t be capable of that skill, but perhaps a Western director would be oblivious to it. I know I was until I finally “embraced” my heritage, haha.

Oh well, just a few more days until we find out.

oh, sorry about that, i didn’t realize there was another chris. let me introduce myself, i am the new “chris,” this was not the other “chris” writing. and i am a typical white american. but my point is that it doesn’t matter where you are from or where your ancestors are from, everyone should be culturally and racially aware and sensitive… i mean, this should be our goal, ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA!

I don’t care. I hate Rob Marshall. The guy is an asshat. Fuck you Rob Marshall.

i think that the casting of chinese actors for the part was inoproppreite, not that i am rascist, but i feel that the producers could have made a better effort to keep the story authentic, even though it is fictional. shooting it in california was another a bad move. also on the comment made about america believing that all asians are chinese, i half way agree, i can plainly tell what asian somebody is, though most people i realize cannot, others are simply to narrow minded to care or, they just dont know how. either way, i feel that as long as america is ignorrant to believe they are realy japanese, and the film is good, i wont beas upest, even though they tried to blend to totally different races into the movie.

HALF of the cast crew are Japanese, why are you complaining?
Zhang Ziyi got the leading role because she is known to western audience, name one Japanese actress that is known in the west?
Even if all the cast crew are Japanaese, it will still fail in Japan, because Japanese think this movie (and the original novel too) is an insult to their culture, and average Americans dont care whether the actresses are Chinese or Japanese, so why does it matter?

and last samurai is a very BAD example, ask ANY japanese how they feel about Last Samurai, all the japanese samurai died and a white man survived to the last and became samurai? Wtf? where is the “historical accuracy”?

Hey Sen. I think one of the problems people are finding is that the main actresses are not played by Japanese women. Sure, it may have some in the supporting roles, but they are all portraying characters that were either described as old, unattractive, or nondescript in the book. Those that were said to be beautiful are all played by Chinese actresses. For further problems seen, note the iconic nature of the geisha in Japanese culture, as mentioned above.

The Zhang Ziyi being bankable arguement has some weight, but you must remember that Ziyi was an unknown when she starred in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, widely recognized as the film that made her famous in the West. Furthermore the film’s dialogue is all in English. Ziyi does not speak English, and a translator had to be on set at all times. There are many starving actors of Asian descent in Hollywood who happen to speak and understand English who could have easily fit the part.

Lastly your arguement about The Last Samurai is one I have encountered often, a common misconception most often held by people who have not seen the film. Tom Cruise never becomes a samurai. He remains a western observer, a portal through which the American audience can view the events depicted on screen. Though he puts on armor and rides into battle with the band of samurai he most definitely does not become one. The samurai of the title can be interpreted to either refer to Watanabe’s character, or the entire band of Samurai who make their last stand against the emperor’s modernized army.

Furthermore the film was well received in Japan for it’s attention to detail. Note that in this film the uniquely Japanese figures, the Samurai, are played only by Japanese, which further lends to the comparison with the Geisha film. Historians say that if anything the only inaccuracy with the film is that it romanticizes the Samurai a bit too much.

I think you may be thinking of James Clavel’s Shogun, which definitely was not received well bu the Japanese public. If you would like an example of a film other than The Last Samurai where similar casting was in effect you may want to check Terrence Malick’s The Thin Red Line.

I don’t have a big problem with the casting of Chinese actresses in the main Japanese female roles. I would have liked to see all Japanese actors and actresses, but this movie is being primarily marketed towards Western audiences. This movie was certainly not made to please Japanese audiences.

The problem I have is that, even though the author spent much time researching Japanese culture, he was telling a second-hand account of a geisha’s life through Western eyes. He wants to sell his romanticized version of what one supposed geisha supposedly told him. The exoticism portrayed in this movie of Asian culture and women is like the lure of sex in any Hollywood film. It sells. It seems that most people more or less take Golden’s account of Mineko Iwasaki’s story at face value. Are we supposed to believe everything he tells us because we are told that he spent years preparing this book.

I cringe when I read all of these high praises for the book. Some may misconstrue some of this praise as affirmation of the book’s authenticity when it comes to Japanese culture. Golden has never experienced Japanese culture before or during World War II. No matter how many books he read on the subject of Japanese culture or geisha, his account will always be less than authentic. Iwasaki’s story may seem somewhat intriguing, but are we to believe everything she has told Golden?

Geisha are an interesting topic because many people know so little about them. I hate to see people gain any kind of understanding of geisha through a Westerner’s eyes who has much to profit from his book and the subsequent movie. He sure has made a name for himself.

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/a_woman_scorned.htm

I saw the movie last night. So impressed was I by the outstanding roles played the stars. Who cares whehter the actresses or actors are Chinese or Japanese? Don’t let provinciallism hinder our appreciation of this movie.

I have been to China and Japan many times. I can clearly see the heavy influence of ancient Chinese culture on Japanese culture. Look at Japanese characters today, which originated from Chinese characters. Some Japanese believe that they are superior to other races in Asia, which is not only inappropriate but also myopic. The hardworking Chinese have won both respect and recognition in North America.

Anyway, let us just focus more on the acting skills and content of the movie. We should have better percetions afterwards.

Movie was good but the book was much better. There are times in the movie that I thought… ‘huh?’ and wouldn’t have really understood what was going on if I had not read the book in the past.

I am Japanese-American and used to live/work in Japan for 2 years. I think the reason for controversy stems from a Japanese sense of self superiority and overall ignorance/lack of appreciation for the rest of the world around them. An interesting survey of 5000 people conducted by the Asahi Shimbun (Japanese newspaper - known to not be right-wing conservative in Japan) asked 5000 random Japanese to name on a map where China is geographically situated. 40% of the respondents got the location wrong. I believe something like 25% of the 40% marked the continental USA as the location of China.

Also having worked there as well as being fluent in Japanese (with a slight accent), I know that as a foreign nationalist I should not stray far from large, established, areas unless I want to be confronted with signs that literally say.. “Japanese Only!”. There are MANY similar signs and it is quite shocking considering that Japan is very commercialized and considered a top tier first world country. I never wanted to bother to explain that I am 100% ethnically Japanese but that I have a strange accent when speaking Japanese so that I may gain ‘entrance’ into these “Japanese Only” places. I often got mistook for Korean with passable Japanese.

Interestingly, I have also spent about a year in Shanghai, China. I spoke English the whole time and I found that people in Shanghai were far more accepting of me as a foreigner than they were in my own home country. There were definitely no establishments with signs prohibiting me from entering because of my ethnicity.

Overall, I am a bit ashamed at the narrowmindedness and pure stupidity of some in what I consider my ethnic home. The controversy of this movie is often euphemized as being far from ‘authentic’ but when dug deeper, what truly bothers the staunchest of casting critics is ‘we don’t want the dirty Chinese playing roles representing our far superior culture.’. Sigh.

Ziyi Zhang is the national whore woman. She deserve to be stomped by a llama until her face is like a crumpled foot. The same for Li Gong. She must be killed by an terrorist bomb for her disgrace filled action.

Die evil woman. Die.

It is sad to see this type of discussion going on regarding this movie and to see the hostility towards another race in which this movie has seem to bring out in some people. Attacks on people and wishing people to die is pretty immature and disturbing. People should never wish bad things on others.

Someone stated “my girlfriend, who is Korean, is annoyed whenever she meets some americans who assume she is Japanese or Chinese. it’s not so much that she doesn’t like japan or china, but the fact that people are so insensitive to make such assumptions based on no experience.” I do not think this applies only to non-asian people but also Asian people. I am assuming that your definition of “American” is non-Korean. I am Vietnamese/Chinese American and have been mistaken for Korean, Japanese and Mongolian by people who are from that race.

THIS MOVIE IS BANNED IN CHINA!

Those who are posting nasty racist aggressive things, please stop, and grow up. You are the minority and no-one suuports you.

There! Now, in response to Dan up ar the top, how can skin colours of chinese and japanese be different - am I woefully ignorant? Having been to both countries it would appear to me that there are dark, light and medium coloured and shades in between, am I missing something? Maybe I should not have dignified that entry with a comment.

I saw the movie last night and was quite disappointed that the accuracy of how geishas dress, wear their hair, dance and wear their make-up was all dumbed down. I guess we go to see films to be entertained, not educated, but I do feel that more accuracy would have given ‘Hollwood’ more cred. Oh well - they wanted a blockbuster, not an art house film.

Which brings me to my last point. As this is intended to be a big box office draw, they cast asian actresses that the majority of westerners may at least have heard of (although they probably didn’t haven’t seen ‘Crouching Dragon’ ‘House of Daggers’ ‘Raise the Red Lantern’ etc!!)

Which is why a few gaijin will be disappointed with the end result (I would have loved to watch Japanese female leads - Ziyi Zhang is gorgeous and more than competent, but she acts the role with a chinese accent; not her fault - she is chinese!) The vast, mid-western, corn-fed majority will love this pretty little film. We know what the Chinese response has been (banned!), does anyoneknow what the Japanese response is?

These are ACTORS!! It’s a MOVIE!! I think people are reading way too much into this…

I have seen this movie, and I think it was hauntingly beautiful. Perhaps a Japanese actress would have done a better job, but art is about appreciation. So why not enjoy what we have rather then grumble about what we might have had.
And really, no one should be banned of a role just because of their nationality or race.

The Japanese response of this movie a mixed bag.

By the way the movie is titled “Sayuri” in Japan.

On Amazon.co.jp the movie was given a 2 stars out of 5. Most of the comments were:

1) A pretty movie that was sort of intersting but didn’t leave any lasting impressions at the end.

2) With a title such as “Sayuri” (which is a very Japanese name), it was hard to watch a Chinese as the lead role.

3) It’s okay. It is a ficticious movie and why not enjoy it as one?

and

4) It’s good that a western movie tries to portray the Japanese culture but it is obviously a movie of a Geisha through the eyes of a westerner.

As for Zhang Ziyi, she seems very popular in Japan right now. (See her a lot in commercials there). So I don’t think the reviews has anything to really do with her in particular.

Personally I haven’t watch it yet and am waiting for the DVD. The acting on the previews just reminded me too much of “Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon”. But it would be interesting to watch the movie dubbed in Japanese. Hmm…

After watching the film last night, I am convinced that it is highly problematic that the three main characters were not Japanese, instead they were Chinese. The main “bad” Geisha girl, Ziyi Zhang, was a stand-out actress in the role and was quite unique. I have no trouble with one or even two of the main leads being Chinese, but having all three being Chinese is just lame. There is no reason they could not have found pretty talented Japanese actress to play the other role which were very demure and quite. To not do so is just foolish and shows lack of thoughtfulness are part of film makers. But, I dont agree with those that say that Japanese and Chinese people are so different that Chinese could not play these roles well, they all did fine in the roles. It is just that out of three main leads, the producers could easily have found good Japanese actresses to play a few of those roles–did I say that already, still shaking my head, what were they thinking? And beleive me, I am one to think that the race card is usually way over played.